200Di Conversions

[Mr Stein]

I've just done this conversion (200Tdi conversion without the turbo).
I wanted to reach out to others who have this conversion, and share comments, tips etc.
I think it's probably the best engine configuration I've had in a Series so far (previous engines: 2.25p, 2.25D, 2.0T Perkins Prima, Ford 3.0 V6, Rover V8).

I know there are some Landy folk out there who hate the idea, but I know the limitations of the Series design.
I've had big engines which have gone through drivetrains, steering wear, broke a few halfshafts (and even a Salisbury axle)!

Just for the record I've owned a 200TDi Defender, so I know what I'm potentially missing, but this time I'm going for the longevity of components, and reasonable performance and MPG, I don't want it to break any speed records.
It has the driveability of our family Vauxhall Merriva, which is not bad for a 39 year old tractor!

I might fit Range-Rover diffs if my overdrive refurb goes belly-up!

I would love to hear from others who have done this conversion....

 

[Guest 4386]

Snagger AKA Nick is the one to ask. Done a great conversion, full attention to gearbox detail, HD RoverDrive, but once he added the 3.5:1diffs, the leverage was just to much. Think he went for 4.1:1 diffs in the end. The 3.5:1 diff ratios were just a step to high for a series transmission. Even the tough Roamer-drive OD had case cracking issues. He had the 2.888 low range to help make up for the higher ratio diffs.
Series boxes, high final drive ratios will have problems dealing with the torque loading. Using the 5 speed defender/discovery gearbox couple to the series transfer box or With the perm 4wd drive transfer box converted to part time, as was an option on the early 90/110's?

 

[Serious Series]

I've just done this conversion (200Tdi conversion without the turbo).
I wanted to reach out to others who have this conversion, and share comments, tips etc.
I think it's probably the best engine configuration I've had in a Series so far (previous engines: 2.25p, 2.25D, 2.0T Perkins Prima, Ford 3.0 V6, Rover V8).

I know there are some Landy folk out there who hate the idea, but I know the limitations of the Series design.
I've had big engines which have gone through drivetrains, steering wear, broke a few halfshafts (and even a Salisbury axle)!

Just for the record I've owned a 200TDi Defender, so I know what I'm potentially missing, but this time I'm going for the longevity of components, and reasonable performance and MPG, I don't want it to break any speed records.
It has the driveability of our family Vauxhall Merriva, which is not bad for a 39 year old tractor!

I might fit Range-Rover diffs if my overdrive refurb goes belly-up!

I would love to hear from others who have done this conversion....

View attachment 293896View attachment 293894View attachment 293895

I run a 200di in my Swb have standard diffs and Ashcroft high ratio transfer case. With 7.50 tyres on have to drop down a gear a bit sooner on hill climbs .With 205 tyres that I also have motorway driving is noisier as higher revs.
I have the two sets of wheels as With the 7.59 I cannot get my landrover in the garage I rent to store it when not in use.(which is rare nowadays).
I get around 30mpg even though I drive it quite fast, recently carried a passenger when going greenlaning with Series 2 club he has a 200tdi carravette and ge was amazed how quiet my landrover was by comparison.
Where abouts are you in the UK, I am going to Apedale mining museum August Bank Holiday weekend near Stoke with Serious Series group.

 

[Mr Stein]

Snagger AKA Nick is the one to ask. Done a great conversion, full attention to gearbox detail, HD RoverDrive, but once he added the 3.5:1diffs, the leverage was just to much. Think he went for 4.1:1 diffs in the end. The 3.5:1 diff ratios were just a step to high for a series transmission. Even the tough Roamer-drive OD had case cracking issues. He had the 2.888 low range to help make up for the higher ratio diffs.
Series boxes, high final drive ratios will have problems dealing with the torque loading. Using the 5 speed defender/discovery gearbox couple to the series transfer box or With the perm 4wd drive transfer box converted to part time, as was an option on the early 90/110's?

Hmm, seems like rebuilding my Fairey overdrive could be is the best option....I mean it works but the thrust bearings are a bit noisy, and I even have some replacements.
Maybe when it's not so warm out there!

 

[Mr Stein]

Using the 5 speed defender/discovery gearbox couple to the series transfer box or With the perm 4wd drive transfer box converted to part time, as was an option on the early 90/110's?

I remember the splines on my 200TDi Defender gearbox stripped at the transfer box, it turned out to be a design flaw, but I think it was a 24 spline shaft and the transfer gear stuck on the end wobbled itself to bits because there was no lubrication. I'd just missed the recall as well!
It did make me wonder how easy or difficult it would be to fit to a series box, and the gearboxes are a reasonable price (probably cheaper without the "Defender" word in there!).

 

[Mr Stein]

I run a 200di in my Swb have standard diffs and Ashcroft high ratio transfer case. With 7.50 tyres on have to drop down a gear a bit sooner on hill climbs .With 205 tyres that I also have motorway driving is noisier as higher revs.
I have the two sets of wheels as With the 7.59 I cannot get my landrover in the garage I rent to store it when not in use.(which is rare nowadays).
I get around 30mpg even though I drive it quite fast, recently carried a passenger when going greenlaning with Series 2 club he has a 200tdi carravette and ge was amazed how quiet my landrover was by comparison.
Where abouts are you in the UK, I am going to Apedale mining museum August Bank Holiday weekend near Stoke with Serious Series group.

Hey that's Burton-on-Trent/Keele way isn't it?
Could you PM me with the details of the club and the event?
I'm not geared up for camping trips at the moment, but I'm sure we can hook up for the day?

 

[Extreedoc]

I fitted a 200Di in my S3 109; quickly found that it needed an overdrive as it was horribly under-geared, screaming its head of at 50 mph. I bought a new Roverdrive, (as they were called then) and now it's a great drive. I've had slightly over 30 mpg.
Can I ask where you got that ducting hose from heater unit to intake from? Mine has given up the ghost.

 

[Mr Stein]

I fitted a 200Di in my S3 109; quickly found that it needed an overdrive as it was horribly under-geared, screaming its head of at 50 mph. I bought a new Roverdrive, (as they were called then) and now it's a great drive. I've had slightly over 30 mpg.
Can I ask where you got that ducting hose from heater unit to intake from? Mine has given up the ghost.

The hose from the outside to the heater is the old oil-bath air intake from hose the 2.25d and wound with insulating tape for visual effect!
The hose isn't trimmed.

 

[Extreedoc]

The hose from the outside to the heater is the old oil-bath air intake from hose the 2.25d and wound with insulating tape for visual effect!
The hose isn't trimmed.

I hadn't realized that those two where the same size. The 'proper' hose for the job as supplied by Britpart looks a cheap and nasty thing for too much money. I'd rather buy a new air filter hose and use that, so thanks for the info. I still have the oil bath filter fitted on mine, I like it and it makes a lovely 'whiffling' sound.

 

[nickjaxe]

I fitted a 200 as a di around 12 years ago.....never looked back.....TBH....I binned the o/d.....served me well for 200.000mls.....but needed constant maintenance.....ie checking and topping up the oil.....only hold 1/2 pt.....no matter what I did to it it leaked into the t/b.

So I sold it....my pal bought it he had a 2.25d.

The disc I bought for its 200 engine had the type of h/r 3.5 diffs to suit my landrover....is it 10 or 11 spline?

Anyway best move.....the 200 pull the 3.5 diffs with ease.....fitting an o/d as well would make it well over geared.

So its now got rid of the o/d noise....they are all noisy to some degree....down side it put the speedo out....I did a rag arse mod.....took out the speedo...took of the glass and put a dot of white paint to match each 10mph segment.....
I am a carful driver...I dont roar upto junctions ect.....50mph max.....swb soft top.....will do over 4mpg on a run.....35+ around town.

Seems quitter than the 2.25d it replaces.
I modded the battery carrier so I can keep the batt under the bonnet where it belongs and got the keep the hugely efficient oil bath air cleaner as well.
I wonder....did you remember to remove the oil thermostat from the top of the filter hosing....will cut oil flow right down far as I know if not....I think....unless of course you have used the oil cooler???
And what did you do with the turbo boost pipe....needs to be left open to atmosphere or black smoke results.

I will see if I can find my posts about my conversion.

 

[nickjaxe]

Ok found the thread from years ago.....my bit starts on page 11 with all my pics a few pages after.....

Wonder how Snagger is going on.....thanks to John I would not of known of this fantastic conversion.

Preparing to fit a 200TDi/Di

Jack nice sensible balanced reply again, I was thinking about contacting Gaydon as well but didn't know about the LROI article. You would think after running the engine for 6000 miles Richard would have some figures you could show to help convince the doubters and show us the articles that he...

www.lrukforums.com

 

[Mr Stein]

I fitted a 200 as a di around 12 years ago.....never looked back.....TBH....I binned the o/d.....served me well for 200.000mls.....but needed constant maintenance.....ie checking and topping up the oil.....only hold 1/2 pt.....no matter what I did to it it leaked into the t/b.

So I sold it....my pal bought it he had a 2.25d.

The disc I bought for its 200 engine had the type of h/r 3.5 diffs to suit my landrover....is it 10 or 11 spline?

Anyway best move.....the 200 pull the 3.5 diffs with ease.....fitting an o/d as well would make it well over geared.

So its now got rid of the o/d noise....they are all noisy to some degree....down side it put the speedo out....I did a rag arse mod.....took out the speedo...took of the glass and put a dot of white paint to match each 10mph segment.....
I am a carful driver...I dont roar upto junctions ect.....50mph max.....swb soft top.....will do over 4mpg on a run.....35+ around town.

Seems quitter than the 2.25d it replaces.
I modded the battery carrier so I can keep the batt under the bonnet where it belongs and got the keep the hugely efficient oil bath air cleaner as well.
I wonder....did you remember to remove the oil thermostat from the top of the filter hosing....will cut oil flow right down far as I know if not....I think....unless of course you have used the oil cooler???
And what did you do with the turbo boost pipe....needs to be left open to atmosphere or black smoke results.

I will see if I can find my posts about my conversion.

Hey, it's good to meet fellow DI'ers!
The general consensus seems to be a it's a positive improvement in performance, without it being too brutal on the drivetrain.
I found the 300TDi rubber engine mat makes a big difference to the noise.
I have a "K&N" type air filter with a snorkel head beats most of the "BRUHHG" induction noise.

I took some time to profile (or "port") the exhaust ports because their mis-match was too much for my OCD!
However on the inlet side I still have the 50mm dia hose inlet in the casting (see picture).
Does anyone know if it makes a difference to widen this to the full 63mm?

My overdrive seems to fill with oil from the transfer box, but last time I was "down there" I cleared the little air vent, so fingers crossed.
I have a set of thrust bearings for it, but I can't see it being a complex repair.....

Yes I removed the oil bypass valve, and I made sure the turbo boost inlet is vented!
I needed to turn the fuelling screw on the main pump in about 2 turns just so you see a dab of smoke when you give it some beans, this really made a difference.
It changes it from "OK" to "blimming brill"!

I discovered that a standard "Gastronorm" catering tray makes the ideal battery carrier and centre tool storage tray.
I didn't even know these things existed until recently, apparently used for keeping food warm in prison canteens.
They are stainless steel and cost around £7-£15 each:
They have a sizing system: "GN1/2" or just "1/2" are 325 × 265 mm and you can choose 100, 150 or 200mm deep.

Gastronorm 1/2 Stainless Steel Containers Bain Marie Food Pan FREE DELIVERY | eBay

High grade stainless steel Gastronorm. It's strongly advised, after use, any excess food is removed to prevent staining. Perfect for keeping food hot. There are different options on depth as below. We will normally require photographic evidence to assist our claim.

www.ebay.co.uk

The way to solve the speedometer issue with 3.54 diffs is simple (I've used this method with my V6 and V8 conversions):
You can fit a Defender LWB speedometer and the gearing will be spot-on, both the mileage and the needle if you have 7.50 tyres, it will fit straight into the SIII cluster.
There is a MINOR mod to the speedo cable plastic fitting, but the square drive is the same
The only visual difference will be the reset button - it leaves a spare hole in the top of the cluster, which is ideal for the hazard switch!
I bought my Defender speedo as a random find at my local Landy garage "as seen" for £5.
I guess I got lucky because nowadays greedy sellers want to charge triple for anything "D" word related!

 

[Mr Stein]

Preparing to fit a 200TDi/Di

Jack nice sensible balanced reply again, I was thinking about contacting Gaydon as well but didn't know about the LROI article. You would think after running the engine for 6000 miles Richard would have some figures you could show to help convince the doubters and show us the articles that he...

www.lrukforums.com

Thanks for the link Nick (I know it's an old thread but we are not getting any younger are we!).
I notice there's always a lot of "speculation" and theories from the TDi owners on how a Di conversion can't be any good for various reasons,
but none of them had actually driven one!

Let's not forget the L/R Gemini 200Di project was nearly a thing, and I reckon Richard at Glencoyne was the first one who was bold enough to try it.
Despite the money I saved on my insurance, and not having to pay for the exhaust and intercooler mods (£500+) the only way to convince those individuals is with a road test!
THEN they can come back with their theories on how it is possible!

I asked the guru at my local Landy garage (whom I otherwise have the utmost respect) to provide a "engineers certificate" or whatever it is the DVLA want nowadays.
He was doubtful, and he quoted the old "I drove a Disco with a duff turbo and it was gutless". But he has never driven a DI conversion.
I am going to challenge him next time with a drive around the block.

On a safety note we must also remember that the Stage1 V8 had the drivetrain mods and disc brakes for a reason - so the vehicle could handle the power.

 

[Serious Series]

Hey, it's good to meet fellow DI'ers!
The general consensus seems to be a it's a positive improvement in performance, without it being too brutal on the drivetrain.
I found the 300TDi rubber engine mat makes a big difference to the noise.
I have a "K&N" type air filter with a snorkel head beats most of the "BRUHHG" induction noise.

I took some time to profile (or "port") the exhaust ports because their mis-match was too much for my OCD!
However on the inlet side I still have the 50mm dia hose inlet in the casting (see picture).
Does anyone know if it makes a difference to widen this to the full 63mm?

View attachment 294042

My overdrive seems to fill with oil from the transfer box, but last time I was "down there" I cleared the little air vent, so fingers crossed.
I have a set of thrust bearings for it, but I can't see it being a complex repair.....

Yes I removed the oil bypass valve, and I made sure the turbo boost inlet is vented!
I needed to turn the fuelling screw on the main pump in about 2 turns just so you see a dab of smoke when you give it some beans, this really made a difference.
It changes it from "OK" to "blimming brill"!

I discovered that a standard "Gastronorm" catering tray makes the ideal battery carrier and centre tool storage tray.
I didn't even know these things existed until recently, apparently used for keeping food warm in prison canteens.
They are stainless steel and cost around £7-£15 each:
They have a sizing system: "GN1/2" or just "1/2" are 325 × 265 mm and you can choose 100, 150 or 200mm deep.

Gastronorm 1/2 Stainless Steel Containers Bain Marie Food Pan FREE DELIVERY | eBay

High grade stainless steel Gastronorm. It's strongly advised, after use, any excess food is removed to prevent staining. Perfect for keeping food hot. There are different options on depth as below. We will normally require photographic evidence to assist our claim.

www.ebay.co.uk

The way to solve the speedometer issue with 3.54 diffs is simple (I've used this method with my V6 and V8 conversions):
You can fit a Defender LWB speedometer and the gearing will be spot-on, both the mileage and the needle if you have 7.50 tyres, it will fit straight into the SIII cluster.
There is a MINOR mod to the speedo cable plastic fitting, but the square drive is the same
The only visual difference will be the reset button - it leaves a spare hole in the top of the cluster, which is ideal for the hazard switch!
I bought my Defender speedo as a random find at my local Landy garage "as seen" for £5.
I guess I got lucky because nowadays greedy sellers want to charge triple for anything "D" word related!

I cut the smaller diameter air inlet off and use a standard 2.25 diesel air intake hose with an adapter to a discovery 1 paper air filter with a K&N type pre-fiilter fitted to that.
I de tuned my VE pump a little using the attached Info , think previous owner had increased fuelling , rarely smokes at all unless I am hammering it.
Mot inspector was bored a few years back as he could find no faults so carried out an emissions test and commented afterwards that is was cleaner than modern cars.

 

[riviera kid]

Good thread this thanks.
I'm running a 200di in my S2a. I fitted the diffs from the donor discovery and have 7.5inch tyres. Combined this gives me a very relaxed 50mph. Power enough to get a move on without tearing the drive train. I used the original oil bath filter which seems to be fine
I'll look at tweaking the pump as I do get quite a bit of smoke under load, thanks for sharing

 

[SWBFreeLoader]

This (and other threads) oft make me ponder de-turboing my TDi. Sounds like a step back, I know, but it's more in-line with the 2A experience I should be getting. Plus people talk about being gutless...it's a series LR mate...get used to it lol. If I want some guts i'll drive my twin cam MG Midget....

 

[Mr Stein]

I cut the smaller diameter air inlet off and use a standard 2.25 diesel air intake hose with an adapter to a discovery 1 paper air filter with a K&N type pre-fiilter fitted to that.

That's a really neat setup, thanks for the info. I hope to see it in the flesh at the show.
I considered using the old oil-bath but It was leaking and It needed a new bracket to be fixed upright to the chassis. So I spent ages looking on Ebay for those cylinder-shaped Disco filters, or Defender air boxes with the external air intake grill, just because it's a sorted way to keep the induction noise away, but people were asking like £70 for shabby secondhand ones!*

*Has anyone noticed that Ebay sellers are like vultures nowadfays, asking like 5-10 times more for Defender parts than for the equivalent parts from any other make of vehicle! I'm not sure how much of it they actually sell, but I won't buy into their capitalist culture. I've found some proper bargains can be had through friends, auto-jumbles and breakers.
*Rant over!*

My K&N/snorkel combo seems to be doing the job. It was an interesting challenge adapting it to fit the old PS pump mounts though!
I will enlarge the inlet next time it's off. It's a bit risky otherwise!

 

[Mr Stein]

I fitted the diffs from the donor discovery

I didn't know the early Disco diffs had the same splines as series vehicles? That is good to know as there are hundreds of dead Disco's about!

 

[Mr Stein]

This (and other threads) oft make me ponder de-turboing my TDi. Sounds like a step back, I know, but it's more in-line with the 2A experience I should be getting. Plus people talk about being gutless...it's a series LR mate...get used to it lol. If I want some guts i'll drive my twin cam MG Midget....

Absolutely Freeloader!

I've always told myself this is "stage one" of a possible "two stage" conversion! If I change my mind I still have the turbo and manifold etc in the shed, and a modified intercooler and large bore exhaust kit is available off the shelf (albeit for a price) from Steve Parkers which will "bolt straight on".

For the moment I'm happy with the reasonable acceleration and cheap insurance (£170 fully comp).
The "40mpg" figure is still theoretical but no-doubt achievable. TBH it's taking a while for the tank level to drop enough for me to evaluate!
The verdict is still out there as to how much the turbo affects MPG, but I guess it's similar but will drop off if you use the extra power.

Then of course, in DI form the engine and drivetrain components will have an easy life from now on.
They say "You will be OK if you have a gentle right foot" - oh if I could show you the collection of knackered halfshaft spline-ends, or the tyre wear, brake shoes, propshafts, gears etc with my "gentle right foot" in a V8!

 

[Mr Stein]

Someone mentioned engine mounts in Nicks original thread.

I used the Defender 2.5d mounts as suggested by Richard at Glencoyne and tapered slightly to fit, but the engine can still wobble at really low revs.
I've often wondered what it would be like using the original "square" diesel engine mounts?
The original ones from my 2.25d are still kicking around and I noticed how solid they seem to be, but I don't know if they would just transfer the vibration to the chassis?
It would bring the sump quite close to the front prop sliding joint, but I guess I could swap the sliding joint to the other end?

Anyone tried it, or a combination of these and normal gearbox mounts?

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