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Transfer Box Won't Turn

M

mbalpha

Shifting Up
LR Series 3 1982, 2.25.

With all of the prop shafts removed my transfer box won't turn by hand without a lot of resistance. I've been trying to turn it by hand by grabbing the hand brake housing and turning so I could set the brake up properly after fitting new shoes. When the rear output flange nut is lose, things turn but with a lot of resistance - is this normal?

If I tighten up the rear output flange then everything locks up tight and cannot be turned or even barred over, it locks solid. It is out of gear and I can shift the lever between low and high and even halfway between the two but nothing turns. This does not feel right

I have recently refitted everything after having had the transfer box out and the gearbox out to replace the clutch and engine rear main oil seal. I've also replaced the transfer box oil seals on each of the output flanges. I've had the handbrake plate off and replaced the shoes but I did not remove the speedo housing so not messed with any spacers. When we originally took the rear flange off, the nut was very loose and maybe this is why, maybe the previous owner could not tighten it up correctly and keep things moving freely?

I've not tried to go further as it feels like it is locked up so hard it would snap a gear or shaft if I turned the engine on and put it in gear and tried to move.

What might I have done wrong?

I'm a bit lost now as to whether this is "normal" or I've over tightened something?

Any ideas as to what might be wrong please. Thanks.
 
mbalpha said:
LR Series 3 1982, 2.25.

With all of the prop shafts removed my transfer box won't turn by hand without a lot of resistance. I've been trying to turn it by hand by grabbing the hand brake housing and turning so I could set the brake up properly after fitting new shoes. When the rear output flange nut is lose, things turn but with a lot of resistance - is this normal?

If I tighten up the rear output flange then everything locks up tight and cannot be turned or even barred over, it locks solid. It is out of gear and I can shift the lever between low and high and even halfway between the two but nothing turns. This does not feel right

I have recently refitted everything after having had the transfer box out and the gearbox out to replace the clutch and engine rear main oil seal. I've also replaced the transfer box oil seals on each of the output flanges. I've had the handbrake plate off and replaced the shoes but I did not remove the speedo housing so not messed with any spacers. When we originally took the rear flange off, the nut was very loose and maybe this is why, maybe the previous owner could not tighten it up correctly and keep things moving freely?

I've not tried to go further as it feels like it is locked up so hard it would snap a gear or shaft if I turned the engine on and put it in gear and tried to move.

What might I have done wrong?

I'm a bit lost now as to whether this is "normal" or I've over tightened something?

Any ideas as to what might be wrong please. Thanks.
Click to expand...
First of all well done for telling every one what your vehicle is, i don't comment on loads of post as i would not have a clue how to advise unless i know what the vehicle is.

from experience you should now retrace your steps, from your explanation the only gearbox work was the oil seals and 1 flange was loose, i would be inclined to look at a parts diagram and see if there are any spacers from the loose flange back.
 
Try it with the transfer lever in High range as in nuetral and low range the front output shaft is coupled also.
If you slacken the rear output nut does it rotate freely , if not take the brake drum off and see if it rotates freely by the way how are you adjusting the brake?
Should be on passenger side of back plate not the rod.
If still tight you may have to add shims to the speedo drive housing check with manual.
 
Thank for all the suggestions so far. I have the drum on and shoes fitted and if I tighten the drum to the flange it’s all tight.

What I might do is drop the shoes off pop the flange back in and drum and see if it spins more freely.

Just how free should it be? (I have no props fitted).

Am I right in thinking the output flange torque is 85ft/lb?
 
Serious Series said:
Try it with the transfer lever in High range as in nuetral and low range the front output shaft is coupled also.
If you slacken the rear output nut does it rotate freely , if not take the brake drum off and see if it rotates freely by the way how are you adjusting the brake?
Should be on passenger side of back plate not the rod.
If still tight you may have to add shims to the speedo drive housing check with manual.
Click to expand...
If I slacken the output nut it rotates a bit and I have the adjuster right out (passenger side) so the shoes are as far in as possible.

I serviced the adjuster and expander when the backplate was off so it’s all nice and loose.

I can see there are some shims fitted in between the Speedo housing and I assumed they were correct, maybe not. It’s possible I suppose that they are not correct and there is not enough end float on the rear output shaft?

I was doing this at 10pm last night after a many late nights to get everything back together so maybe I just need to strip it back a bit check it is free before putting the shoes and drum on.
 
Yeah you should probably take it back apart a bit and see if anything looks out of place. Sounds like the brake drum might be binding on something. Maybe you didn't press the rear seal far enough in and the backing plate is standing off and binding with the drum?
Did you have the transfer box off the gearbox? The whole assembly should turn with some resistance but not with difficulty.
This may be a silly question but is it in gear?
 
mbalpha said:
When we originally took the rear flange off, the nut was very loose and maybe this is why, maybe the previous owner could not tighten it up correctly and keep things moving freely?
Click to expand...
Given that tightening the nut locks the box, it seems logical to assume that the PO either did not know how to set up the output shaft preload or could not be arssed. So, I would get out the green bible and do it now.
Then you will have eliminated that fundamental from your enquiries.
 
SeriesG said:
Yeah you should probably take it back apart a bit and see if anything looks out of place. Sounds like the brake drum might be binding on something. Maybe you didn't press the rear seal far enough in and the backing plate is standing off and binding with the drum?
Did you have the transfer box off the gearbox? The whole assembly should turn with some resistance but not with difficulty.
This may be a silly question but is it in gear?
Click to expand...
Yes I split the transfer box and gearbox to more easily remove them. So I’ve had the intermediate gear out and so on. (Managed to break a stud on the inside fixings too but got that out and replaced so had transfer box in and out twice!).

It’s not in gear, the gearbox spins freely with no transfer box.

I’ll check the depth of that rear seal and take all the brake stuff and see how I go. There must be something binding somewhere. Thanks for the suggestions.
 
I seem to recall on the LT230 that its possible to put one or two of the bolts/studs in the wrong holes and they are very slightly too long and hit gears.
Not something similar on your box is it..? :sad:
 
mikeau said:
I seem to recall on the LT230 that its possible to put one or two of the bolts/studs in the wrong holes and they are very slightly too long and hit gears.
Not something similar on your box is it..? :sad:
Click to expand...
That's a definite the bolts that go in from the front especially the the top one doesn't need to be any longer than 35mm, good call fella
 
After going through most of the above and inspecting the movement of the intermediate gear through the inspection hole we concluded the only thing that could be making it bind up was the speedo housing. So with that removed things move a lot more freely.

There was 68thou of shims fitted using 8 shims. I think this is way too much and so when the main nut was even loosely tightened everything clamped together and siezed. By having so much space present, when I torqued the main output nut up I’ve pulled the Speedo donut gear too tightly onto the Speedo output shaft and this was causing the binding.

I’ve managed to put an indent in the Speedo gear. :(

I can try to file it out, do you think that will be ok?

Then I can reset the output preload correctly and I suspect lose a few shims!
 

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If it is clamping to tight you need to add shims surely?
The output shaft has two cone bearings same as a wheel hub.
If you tighten the speedo drive up evenly with no shims till some resistance is fealt what is the gap measurement.
Manual advises a string around high low selector groove and meassuring the force to keep it turning , the back of the drive flange with the brake bolt fixing plate is a similiar diameter to selector for groove.
Do you have a manual?
 
Have you replaced the bearings on the intermediate shaft, if you have there shouldn't be a case for re shimming, you'll be very close to where you want to be, I think you need 0.10 to 0.15 end float, a dial gauge is an absolute must with what your doing, all new bearings are the same size assuming you've bought quality clobber and your casing isn't bolloxed you'll be close
As for the speedo drive I don't see how you can wreck that unless you've done the rear output shaft so tight it's pulled it up beyond reality, it's on a worm drive and will turn with the output shaft itself as its tightened and shouldn't get damaged in anyway
 
This is the first time the worm gear has been out so it could have been like that from the start for all I know. I’ve not replaced any bearings.
 
This whole thing seems a bit weird to me. I don't see how the speedo housing could cause the shafts to lock up. Poor shim adjustment could make it tight or loose but I doubt it could seize without breaking the housing itself. I also don't get why tightening the output coupler nut could ever cause the shaft to tighten up. The coupler bears onto the speedo drive gear which bears on the output shaft inner bearing race which bears onto a shoulder on the shaft - there is no slop built in there - it's a solid connection. Something else has to have been assembled wrong here - something is where it shouldn't be...
 
It’s a series box on a 1982 “88.

The output shaft had a huge amount of friction and even with the output nut not done up it took two hands on the drum to turn it. No chance you could have turned it by hand just by grabbing the output shaft.

I took the shoes and back plate off and still the same, very hard to turn, regardless of being in hi, low or neutral.

With the speedo housing off everything freed up. I can see the speedo worm gear is a bit chewed. I’ve not been in here before so it is very possible the previous owner has put something back incorrectly.

I too am wondering what the difference will be when I get the shim clearance right and tighten everything back up as I can’t see how the speedo housing alters the distance between the output flange shoulder that rests on the Speedo worm that itself rests on the bearing. It’s like there is too much length in the shaft and when you tighten everything up the main output nut goes on the shaft a long way and then everything binds up.

Sorry if I’m not describing it well enough but it’s what I see in front of me. I’ve done nothing more than release the speedo housing and that’s what freed everything up. I’m beginning to see why the nut was so loose when I first took it apart as I suspect the previous owner just gave up and tightened it as much as they dared to and left it at that.
 
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